HQPlayer+NAA; hardware dedicato

[UnixMan]

how long is long enough? some cm ore several meters? Must I care of problems with proximity of sender and receiver? (I'm thinking to resemble everythink in a small box).

I wouldn't do that. Doing so would render it completely useless, if not counterproductive (more noise/interferences, rather than less).

IMHO, the use of an optical network link may make sense, but only if you really use it to separate, turn away (also physically) as much of the the (electrically and possibly also acoustically) "noisy" stuff from the audio system and the listening room.

That is, it makes sense if you keep only a very low-power, low-noise minimal system (e.g. the "NAA", squeezelite/squeezeplay, netjack or any other similar streaming-based system) connected to the DAC and move everything else (disk server, DSP machine, etc) as far as possible from both the audio system and the listening room itself. For instance placing everything else in the basement, or at least in some other room (as far away as possible from the listening room).

Doing that may really reduce the sources of noise and interferences, including airborne and (audio system) power-line pollution to the minimum possible (regardless of how "noisy" the other parts of the system are).

Optical fibers are thin, flexible and do not pick-up electromagnetic noise and interferences. Single-mode ones can be practically as long as you need (actual limit being several kilometers). Thus they can be easily routed in-wall together with the electrical power lines. Being completely non-conductive, this is not even a safety risk. Hence, if you're aiming to reduce as much as possible any source of noise/interferences, there are really no reasons not to do so...

[marcoc1712]

I wouldn't do that. Doing so would render it completely useless, if not counterproductive (more noise/interferences, rather than less).

What You wouldn't do? Put everything in a box or use two media converter and the fiber cable like a pigtail to isolate the rest of the network from the renderer (or NAA or....)?

I think we agree, we already discussed here, that the way to go is server in the basement and renderer closed to the dac, with ethernet in between. More, I'm quite sure thar if well engineered, any ethernet configuration between Server and renderer, no matter the media, how much switches and other devices are connected should not affect sound quality in any way.

Could you better elaborate if, when and how You think I could take advantage fom fiber in a normal, already cat6 cabled house? What if using powerline instead?

thanks

[UnixMan]

What You wouldn't do? Put everything in a box or use two media converter and the fiber cable like a pigtail to isolate the rest of the network from the renderer (or NAA or....)?

in short, neither. :-)

Actually, I understood that you were thinking about putting all together in a single box: the two media converters, NAA host and perhaps the DAC too. IMHO, that's definitely a no-go.

While perhaps one media converter may be placed in a box together with the NAA host, I would rather keep the DAC in a different box on its own. And definitely I would place the other media converter at least a few meters away from the audio system.

Though I would probably prefer keeping also the "local" media converter not too close to the NAA host and the audio system. After all, while the optical link may completely isolate from any "upstream" source of noise and interferences, the media converter will surely generate some amount of EM noise on its own (quite a bit of it: operating a relatively powerful, very high-frequency pulsating laser isn't quite "clean" in that sense). Keeping it apart should provide some more immunity.

(of course, here I'm reasoning in "paranoid mode": without doing experiments and careful measurements, there's no way to tell if / how much those may or may not be real problems in practice).

I think we agree, we already discussed here, that the way to go is server in the basement and renderer closed to the dac, with ethernet in between. More, I'm quite sure thar if well engineered, any ethernet configuration between Server and renderer, no matter the media, how much switches and other devices are connected should not affect sound quality in any way.

indeed. Actually, if we follow J.Swenson reasoning about how the upstream system may influence the final jitter @DAC, I would say that -possibly- the more different devices (routers, switches, ecc) you have in between, the better it is...

Could you better elaborate if, when and how You think I could take advantage fom fiber in a normal, already cat6 cabled house?

well, IMO the best thing to do would be anyway to replace the connection going from the listening room to the upstream hub (switch or whatever), or at least part of it, with the fiber link.

Should that be way too impractical to do, then you may add the optical link between the in-wall ethernet socket and the local host.

What if using powerline instead?

are you f***ing kidding me?

We are talking about minimizing noise and interferences, among which power line pollution is likely one of the most sensitive area, and you're suggesting to inject a powerful, wide-band high-frequency signal directly on the power line?

[alex_i]

qualcuno la conosce questa? Potrebbe essere una soluzione per collegare la hiface2 a batteria o i dac usb?
SHOPPING AREA: AUDIO GRADE USB 3.0 PCIE CARD

[marcoc1712]

in short, neither. :-)

Actually, I understood that you were thinking about putting all together in a single box: the two media converters, NAA host and perhaps the DAC too. IMHO, that's definitely a no-go.

Not really, I was thinking to put only the two media converter and the fiber (short) cable in a box, then connect this box to the NAA and to the socket with two CAT6, as usual. Really same functionality as the opto isolator, that's why I was asking about the minimum leght of the cable and proximity problems of the two media converters.

indeed. Actually, if we follow J.Swenson reasoning about how the upstream system may influence the final jitter @DAC, I would say that -possibly- the more different devices (routers, switches, ecc) you have in between, the better it is...

I tend to think is quite ininfluent in normal situations, but a safe and good switch (or router) regenerating the signal should not hurt.

are you f***ing kidding me?

We are talking about minimizing noise and interferences, among which power line pollution is likely one of the most sensitive area, and you're suggesting to inject a powerful, wide-band high-frequency signal directly on the power line?

Sure, if you could avoid it would be better, but as you pointed, the problem is not the signal polluted (It's indeed very clean) but main power being injected by other than a clean 50Hz signal.

Then you should consider that:

1. The 'noise' injected by powerline is 'by design', controlled and compliant with the rigid normatives about emi/RFI and telco pollution. This was probabily the first problem addressed by engineeers from the really beginning.

2. AV is the primary/early adopter market for them, so I think they care about and as a matter of fact, I've never heard about audio/video degradation caused by home plugs, the problem is the opposite: EMI/RFI coming from other appliance (sometime audio gears) do pollute, resulting in low throughtput. As a result, some HomePlug/PowerLine manufacturer is currently selling filter for noisy appliances, advising customers to search and isolate these 'noise sources', this will drive to a cleaner main power in the house.

3. Power distribution companies are currently using powerline trasmission for all and every counter in any single flat. IoT is going to boost powerline network usage, you can't just avoid it, see here: HomePlug Alliance | Home.

4. As a good practice, You should isolate the audio system power line from other usage and appliance, even if you don't use home plugs at all.

[EuroDriver]

Not really, I was thinking to put only the two media converter and the fiber (short) cable in a box, then connect this box to the NAA and to the socket with two CAT6, as usual. Really same functionality as the opto isolator, that's why I was asking about the minimum leght of the cable and proximity problems of the two media converters.

I think this arrangement is OK. The big noise source is power supply to the FMC and noise from HQP Desktop computer

1. The 'noise' injected by powerline is 'by design', controlled and compliant with the rigid normatives about emi/RFI and telco pollution. This was probabily the first problem addressed by engineeers from the really beginning.

2. AV is the primary/early adopter market for them, so I think they care about and as a matter of fact, I've never heard about audio/video degradation caused by home plugs, the problem is the opposite: EMI/RFI coming from other appliance (sometime audio gears) do pollute, resulting in low throughtput. As a result, some HomePlug/PowerLine manufacturer is currently selling filter for noisy appliances, advising customers to search and isolate these 'noise sources', this will drive to a cleaner main power in the house.

3. Power distribution companies are currently using powerline trasmission for all and every counter in any single flat. IoT is going to boost powerline network usage, you can't just avoid it, see here: HomePlug Alliance | Home.

4. As a good practice, You should isolate the audio system power line from other usage and appliance, even if you don't use home plugs at all.

I was told by video specialist for Hotel cable TV systems a few years ago that "powerline" was a RF disaster, causing all kinds of problems for other systems. Bruno Putzey says that USA FCC emmission regs are about 30 db to high for avoid bad effect on hi fi audio. So I keep powerline out of my home environment completely.

In the Gallery where we did the fibre tests, both systems were badly affected by the dimmer-able fluorescent lights, so we listened half in the dark

Our high end audio systems are very sensitive to RFI

[marcoc1712]

...So I keep powerline out of my home environment completely.

You have it in your house, if you have a smart counter.

In the Gallery where we did the fibre tests, both systems were badly affected by the dimmer-able fluorescent lights, so we listened half in the dark

Our high end audio systems are very sensitive to RFI[/QUOTE]

That's a well known source easier to spot out becouse it's a kind of 'hum', Try to isolate the line with a good autotrasformer for audio use and it goes away.

I my vacation appartments I do use powerline to connect sattelite STB to internet and I don't hear/see any side effect on video and audio. Sure is not my High resolution DAC and system, but it works just fine.

I'm considering to use powerline to bring internet in basement and first floor of my house that are not wired (yet), thats not a big problem becouse I have two different counter and the Audio is on the other, but I would like to move at least NAS in the basement (music room is in the attic) and join the two sublan (power line and cat6 cabled).

I'll see what's is going to happen.

[audiodan]

Per tornare a noi e all'italian language, ordinati i due aggeggi e un cavo ottico da due metri. Costo dell'operazione 130€ circa, denari che mi sembrano meglio spesi che investendoli su Audiophile Optimizer il quale, a naso e quindi probabilmente sbagliando, non mi convince troppo. L'idea di pagare prima e di chiedere il rimborso poi per poterlo provare non mi piace........

[EuroDriver]

You have it in your house, if you have a smart counter.

In the Gallery where we did the fibre tests, both systems were badly affected by the dimmer-able fluorescent lights, so we listened half in the dark

Our high end audio systems are very sensitive to RFI

That's a well known source easier to spot out becouse it's a kind of 'hum', Try to isolate the line with a good autotrasformer for audio use and it goes away.

I my vacation appartments I do use powerline to connect sattelite STB to internet and I don't hear/see any side effect on video and audio. Sure is not my High resolution DAC and system, but it works just fine.

I'm considering to use powerline to bring internet in basement and first floor of my house that are not wired (yet), thats not a big problem becouse I have two different counter and the Audio is on the other, but I would like to move at least NAS in the basement (music room is in the attic) and join the two sublan (power line and cat6 cabled).

I'll see what's is going to happen.

I use SONOS mesh network to supply IP conectivity between rooms and apartments, unfortunately probably too slow for NAA at DSD 256 :-(

[alex_i]

qualcuno la conosce questa? Potrebbe essere una soluzione per collegare i dac usb o la hiface2 a batteria?
shopping area: Audio grade usb 3.0 pcie card

nessuno?