Avvio ripetuto all' accensione del pc

[Support@Antec]

Hello, no, I meant that BIOS updates of a Motherboard can alter their Power Good Signal tolerance. This is partially also defined by the mechanical design of the Motherboard. Same for the PSU. The Power Good (PG) Signal is the signal the PSU sends to the MBU (Power Good?) when turned on and the MBU has to answer this signal (Yes, Power Good!). Only then the PSU provides power to the MBU.
This signal is a sequence of voltages and currents and, though it is standardized, there are always incomatibilities and also it gets changed sometimes by Intel and different MBUs have different tolerances and the TPQ-1200 is using a several years old PG signal profile, which is not the latest. Also, over time, component degrading can alter it on both PSU & MBU. So over time, incompatibilities can "grow", but also be created by BIOS/UFI changes by the MBU manufacturer. The signal also is modified if a PSU starts cold (empty) or soft (warm) with partially charged components inside.
So what to do: You can only try to update the BIOS of the MBU to the latest revision and hope it works. Otherwise, "update" to an older version of the BIOS and hope. In most cases, it is BIOS code modifications by the vMBU mangufacturer, which cause incompatibility changes, not component degrading. This is a complicated topic :-) (I am a PSU PM in Taiwan)

[Totocellux]

Hello, thank you very much for your support. How a BIOS updates automatically itself ? Could you write step by step (from BIOS menu) how to modify the temperature range with precise safe numbers ?

in queste circostanze non esistono opzioni o impostazioni, nel bios, su cui poter intervenire.

D'altronde, i circuiti inerenti la gestione del segnale di Power Good di ogni alimentatore e quelli di
controparte, presenti in ogni scheda madre, non trattano temperature ma tensioni (Volt) e correnti (Ampere).

Provo a far comprendere meglio il tutto, in merito a quanto riferito dal supporto Antec ufficiale nell'ultimo
messaggio: tra parentesi ho inserito alcune aggiunte per facilitare (spero) la comprensione:


"Support@Antec

ciao, no, ho voluto solo dire che gli aggiornamenti del BIOS di una scheda madre possono alterare la loro
tolleranza al segnale (di Power Good).

Ciò (la tolleranza al segnale di Power Good) è in parte anche definito dal disegno meccanico della scheda
madre. Lo stesso dicasi per l'alimentatore.

Il segnale di Power Good è quello (a livello elettrico) che, al momento di inviargli corrente, l'alimentatore
invia al corrispettivo circuito presente sulla scheda madre e a cui questa (la scheda madre) deve
rispondere (con una serie di altri segnali).

Solo successivamente l'alimentatore si trova nelle condizioni di fornire (la necessaria) energia alla
scheda madre.

Questo segnale (Power Good) è una sequenza di tensioni e correnti e, sebbene sia standardizzato,
possono anche sussistere delle incompatibilità, può talvolta venir modificato da parte di Intel,
alcune schede madri possono avere dei valori differenti di tolleranza (al segnale stesso) e il
TPQ-1200 usa un profilo (di segnale) di Power Good vecchio di diversi anni, non più recente.

Infine, col passar del tempo, il degrado dei componenti (soggetti ad usura) può alterarlo (il segnale di
Power Good) sia sull'alimentatore che sulla scheda madre.

Pertanto, col tempo, possono venir alla luce delle incompatibilità, ma queste possono anche essere
create dagli aggiornamenti dei Bios/UEFI effettuati dai produttori di schede madri.

Il segnale (di Power Good) viene anche (di norma) modificato al momento che l'alimentatore effettua un
avvio in modalità "a freddo" (tramite il pulsante di accensione del pc o dell'alimentatore stesso) o "a caldo"
(ripartenza effettuata tramite comando del sistema operativo) con i componenti (elettronici) parzialmente
carichi all'interno.

Quindi cosa si può fare: puoi solamente provare ad aggiornare il BIOS della scheda madre alla versione
più recente e sperare che torni a funzionare. Altrimenti, "aggiornare" ad una versione più vecchia del
BIOS e sperare.

Nella maggior parte dei casi, sono le modifiche al codice apportate ai BIOS dai produttori di schede madri
a causare cambiamenti verso l'incompatibilità (del segnale di Power Good), non un degrado (naturale) dei
componenti.

Questo è un topic complicato (sono un PM di alimentatori a Taiwan)"

[fabio2012]

Hello, no, I meant that BIOS updates of a Motherboard can alter their Power Good Signal tolerance. This is partially also defined by the mechanical design of the Motherboard. Same for the PSU. The Power Good (PG) Signal is the signal the PSU sends to the MBU (Power Good?) when turned on and the MBU has to answer this signal (Yes, Power Good!). Only then the PSU provides power to the MBU.
This signal is a sequence of voltages and currents and, though it is standardized, there are always incomatibilities and also it gets changed sometimes by Intel and different MBUs have different tolerances and the TPQ-1200 is using a several years old PG signal profile, which is not the latest. Also, over time, component degrading can alter it on both PSU & MBU. So over time, incompatibilities can "grow", but also be created by BIOS/UFI changes by the MBU manufacturer. The signal also is modified if a PSU starts cold (empty) or soft (warm) with partially charged components inside.
So what to do: You can only try to update the BIOS of the MBU to the latest revision and hope it works. Otherwise, "update" to an older version of the BIOS and hope. In most cases, it is BIOS code modifications by the vMBU mangufacturer, which cause incompatibility changes, not component degrading. This is a complicated topic :-) (I am a PSU PM in Taiwan)

Well, as written above I had this same damage two years ago and it was totally solved (at least temporary until now) just changing the power supply under warranty. So does it make sense speaking about the BIOS updates?

I am a simple consumer, never been a technician, but I fear that the extreme computers like mine just wears out the power supplies quicker than expected.

[Support@Antec]

Hi, if you want to avoid the need of having always to cold-start your system, you need a different PSU or try to change the BIOS/UFI revision. The BIOS/UFI is not only what you see, but a lot of hidden settings (The internal MBU code). MBU manufacturers change sometimes some frequencies of components, this changes their tolerances. Sometimes improves them, sometimes not.
This happens all the time and each PSU model has motherboards it cannot work with.
Your original problem was that the TPQ-1000 was not strong enough for your system.

For PSU manufacturers especially the "Monster" MBUs are very problematic, as they are very unstable (from our persepctive) and have very limited tolerances ffor PG signals.

Sorry, but there is no other solution.

[fabio2012]

Hi, if you want to avoid the need of having always to cold-start your system, you need a different PSU or try to change the BIOS/UFI revision. The BIOS/UFI is not only what you see, but a lot of hidden settings (The internal MBU code). MBU manufacturers change sometimes some frequencies of components, this changes their tolerances. Sometimes improves them, sometimes not.
This happens all the time and each PSU model has motherboards it cannot work with.
Your original problem was that the TPQ-1000 was not strong enough for your system.

For PSU manufacturers especially the "Monster" MBUs are very problematic, as they are very unstable (from our persepctive) and have very limited tolerances ffor PG signals.

Sorry, but there is no other solution.

I understand the question. Anyway when I had normal pc's in the past years until 2009, I had never these kind of problems even if there were already the BIOS updates.

Could you tell me, if possible, which kind of PSU can be more reliable with my extreme pc? I can't think that all the extreme pc's sold in the world have such limits and problems in the short term.

[Support@Antec]

Hi,

You can never be safe, but any of the currently available PSUs is likely ok. Your problem is often considered for not enough power and alike in online forums. (My PC does not power up when I use this PSU, but it does power up with another PSU. Then most people say not enough power :-) )

Look for any PSU with the info ATX12V 2.31 or ATX12V 2.4. This indicates, that its PG signal is according to the latest revision, which means it is for the latest MBUs. (But still incompatibilities can happen.) Your TPQ-1200 is likely ATX12V 2.2 designed.

Next time you buy a high-end MBU, wait 2 weeks after launch and check the MBU makers support forum for complaints about not starting up problems.Especially for next-gen CPU MBUs like "X99". Wait and let others buy first. Always good to be not the first buyer :-)

Just for illustration, below is a PG Signal chart. For example, MBU a cannot stand it if 12V & 5V start at the same time, the next MBU is ok with it, but cannot stand it if 3.3 & 5V start at the same time. They should be ok, but, the reality is, there a million IF-Conditions within the mechanical design and they are not as tolrant to signal variation as they should be.

[fabio2012]

Hi,

You can never be safe, but any of the currently available PSUs is likely ok. Your problem is often considered for not enough power and alike in online forums. (My PC does not power up when I use this PSU, but it does power up with another PSU. Then most people say not enough power :-) )

Look for any PSU with the info ATX12V 2.31 or ATX12V 2.4. This indicates, that its PG signal is according to the latest revision, which means it is for the latest MBUs. (But still incompatibilities can happen.) Your TPQ-1200 is likely ATX12V 2.2 designed.

Next time you buy a high-end MBU, wait 2 weeks after launch and check the MBU makers support forum for complaints about not starting up problems.Especially for next-gen CPU MBUs like "X99". Wait and let others buy first. Always good to be not the first buyer :-)

Just for illustration, below is a PG Signal chart. For example, MBU a cannot stand it if 12V & 5V start at the same time, the next MBU is ok with it, but cannot stand it if 3.3 & 5V start at the same time. They should be ok, but, the reality is, there a million IF-Conditions within the mechanical design and they are not as tolrant to signal variation as they should be.

For first, I would like to try to downgrade the BIOS to the previous version that worked. Could you explain me step by step how to do it? Thank you very much.

[Support@Antec]

Hi, you just download an older BIOS version from ASUS website for your ASUS 1366 Rampage II Extreme and flash the BIOS with it. Just read the Motherboard manual for details.

[Totocellux]

per quanto riguarda la procedura necessaria al flash del bios sulla tua mainboard Asus X58, non
trattandosi più di attività inerenti il supporto tecnico ufficiale Antec, dovresti aprire un nuovo
topic nella sezione appropriata:

Motherboards


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